Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · May 16, 2006, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Panic: 25e. AoE energy degen and punishes signets
Migrane: 10e. Point based hp degen, that sucks, but the 100% cast time addition is NASTY...

I had an Illusion/Inspiration mesmer for a while but my question is a domination style better using Panic instead of Migrane?

Help? ^_^

Hella Good · May 16, 2006, 03:41 AM // 03:41

i don't know how to answer this because I am not sure what you are asking but I can tell you that there is those of us who love Panic and there is those who pefer stuff like Surge and it's perfectly fine- it's all a matter of play style. But Panic or Migraine... I have never had to choose between those two... maybe because they do like completely different things.

Yukito Kunisaki · May 16, 2006, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Ok, how's this?

What's more efficient in terms of skill placement [domination backup vs. Illusion] and also energy usage.

AoE Hexing is not only devastating but the e. degen I think would me more painful to casters than possible interrupting.

The wall I ran into with Migrane is that at 16 Illusion, I can't really use the other interrupt skills with much avail. I have to rely on my Inspiration to Interrupt with things like Leech Signet and Power Drain. [both hot skills in my book]

My Illusionare build mounts up tons of degen and has 2 interrupts but if I were to use Panic, I don't know what people would back up Panic with. I'm not much for 'instinct' interrupts and I originally used Illusion merely as a way to give me an easy handicap. [yay for 2x cast time!] Still, form what I've read at guildwarswiki, it seems that the popularity preference lies in Domination being the best stat to max, with Illusion in second [being anti-fighter rather than caster] and then only use Inspiration as a support stat rather than a main stat. I did have a 16 Inspiration build once, very hot shtuff before the e. denial nerf.

Now, I run the Migrane, Power / Leech Signet using the rest of the Illusion skills as degen pileups to 10hp degen for one target... Very hot if I can target hop quickly enough.

But for Panic, would Domination allow me a good warrior defense?

I guess what I'm asking for is something along these skill sets:

Migrane {E}
Power Drain
Leech Signet
Soothing Images
Faintheartedness
Conjure Phantasm
Ether Feast
Res Signet

or the dominator style build like:

Panic {E}
Empathy
Backfire
Power Drain
Drain Enchantment
Enfeebling Blood
Shadow of Fear
Res Signet

Hella Good · May 16, 2006, 06:21 AM // 06:21

K... 1st off you never max your Illusion when doing Migraine interrupt, you pump up your domination inters like Power Leak/Spike. Migraine should only last so long, you see...

Now about Panic... Panic only works with heavy nrg management. I have seen it in GvG used with Glyph of Lesser Energy. You can also fill in the rest of the slots with some Sigs to off-set the costs. Panic is very efficient versus everything really- not only does it degen but it also punishes Monks for using Devo/Blessed Sig and Warriors for their Healing Sigs. But to make good use of Panic, you gotta do like dual Signet of Weariness to really bring in this AoE e-denial thing. You can also toss in Well of Weariness which stacks very well with Panic. Like with every hex tho, you gonna have a hex heavy build to make it worthwhile. At least in PvP. I used to do like Panic + E-burn + Ether Lord + Sigs. Haven't done that in a long while tho. Some toss in like Malaise.

Btw with Panic.... you shouldn't expect to see some massive damage happening. It's one of those skills that works subtle and you don't always notice its effects. But trust me they are there.

From the builds you posted I don't quite understand if you are going for degen or interrupt or whatever. Migraine inter build is: Migraine, Conjure, 4 interrupts, extra skills (often Mantra of Persistance is added in). Panic would be smth like what I said above.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 16, 2006, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Going to get own'd by some warrior -.-
Distortion/some way to slow said warrior/someway to make said warrior miss...needed (or hex it to hell)

Enfeeble is a great skill; enfeebling blood has too small of a aoe.

Yukito Kunisaki · May 17, 2006, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Warriors mob people, and unless they nerfed it, it AoE's just fine...

Warrior Trains happen, at least, from smart people I've fought, getting hit by one Eviscerate spike is bearable sometimes, getting hit by 2 is guarunteed kill in more instances...

Maxing Illusion allows for a nice and long degen and hex from both Conjure and Soothing Images. Soothing + Faintheartedness = blah damage warrior. I'd chuck in plague touch / enfeeble when they try to cripple/bleed me, fun stuff...

Malaise? High end guilds scoff at that skill and from some previous studying I can see why... Stupid end at 0e... Anyone worth their brains knows how to focus swap that crap off... [fought a few of those and swore never to use malaise in smart battles again]

I'm a mesmer, I'm not in it for the damage. though with Illusion I could be in it for the degen...

25 e. Panic. Yow. Putting Migrane in another skill line outside domination freakin' hurts...

I like running 16 in stats. Makes me feel competent. [at least, everything except ranger]

So, you think it's best I only go say, 13 in Illusion, for Migrane and anti-warrior hexes, then go domination spread?

I should cap Panic somehow and see for myself, I'm not too good at interrupting even with the double cast time. [yah, lag and low practice time will do it]

so uh

9+1+3 Illusion
6+1 Fast Casting
9+1 Inspiration
7 Curses
Rest+1 Domination ?

Migrane {E}
Power Spike
Power Leak
Power Drain
Drain Enchantment
Spirit of Failure
Price of Failure
Plague Touch / Res Signet

I'm not a fan of spreading stats out TOO much due to supposed efficiency issues.

The Panic idea I had in mind was

16 Domination
6+1 Fast Casting
9+1 Inspiration
rest to curses

Panic {E}
Power Spike
Power Leak
Power Drain
Wastrel's Worry [if they won't cast, make them cast?]
Spirit of Failure
Price of Failure
Plague Touch / Res Signet

Still have trouble due to lag and stuff for those damn 1s. cast spells. [most of which are damn good... hmm...]

Is it possible to make an efficient Domination only or Illusion only build? [as only, I mean 16 in said stat with some support from Inspiration, dash of fast casting, and Curses, cause I like curses...]

Thanks for the input!

edit: all these game updates and new skill really make me wish I had more time to game... Can't wait to make a new thread with any final arrangements due to your helps... tanks! ^_^

Yukito Kunisaki · May 17, 2006, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

From the builds you posted I don't quite understand if you are going for degen or interrupt or whatever. Migraine inter build is: Migraine, Conjure, 4 interrupts, extra skills (often Mantra of Persistance is added in). Panic would be smth like what I said above.

Well, I'd like to do both if possible, lol.

If I followed your listing, I think it'd be something like this?

Migrane {E}
Power Spike
Power Leak
Power Drain
Leech Signet [cause it r0x0rs]
Spirit of Failure
Price of Failure
Plague Touch/Res Signet

What stats would you recommend?

Yukito Kunisaki · May 17, 2006, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Ok, finally got a chance to test Panic...

Holy fark how do YOU PEOPLE get this thing to work with good energy management...?!

Rayne Nightfyre · May 17, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

I still say Arcane Conundrum > Migrane.

Hella Good · May 17, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Panic isn't an elite to be used with interrupts. Panic builds go smth like:

pure mes:
1- Panic (E)
2- Energy Burn
3- Signet of Weariness
4- Signet of Humility - Signet of Disruption
5- Mantra of Inscriptions
6- Ether Lord
7- Energy Tap
8- Res

You can also do Glyph of Lesser Energy/Panic with whatever else. I saw this on last season's finals (or the season be4, cant remember). I know the Mes was using Blackout, too, I think E-burn, and some SoFailure of Spirit Shacks (+Wrack) or something in that fashion.

Themis · May 17, 2006, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Well, I'd like to do both if possible, lol.

If I followed your listing, I think it'd be something like this?

Migrane {E}
Power Spike
Power Leak
Power Drain
Leech Signet [cause it r0x0rs]
Spirit of Failure
Price of Failure
Plague Touch/Res Signet

What stats would you recommend?

You should follow Hella's advice : you need a cover hex for Migraine, take Conjure Phantasm as stated.

I would advise you not to mix too many attributes. Price of failure is of no need : you've an interrupt build, no further damage needed.
Spirit of failure is not of much use either : your interrupts provide you with sufficient energy (let along it is slow-casting = not good for interrupt builds). You need some sort of debuff (and if you need more energy management), try Drain Enchantment.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 18, 2006, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Spirit of failure is a powerful cover hex the last time I checked.

Yukito Kunisaki · May 18, 2006, 03:44 AM // 03:44

I've learned, in an ugly way, that in either arena or 8v8 to 12v12, if I can stop one, I get eaten by the other...

I fight casters, warriors/sins eat me for dinner.

I go anti-warrior, casters rape my teammates.

From careful checking, I can spare 2-3 skills to stop non-casters easily and then run 5-6 anti-caster skills.

I don't see why Arcane Conundrum > Migrane, it takes longer to cast and has a shorter duration. Migrane = AC on steroids...

Power Block? Yeah, I suppose that'd work, but then people can die to Migrane, in odd circumstances, but it happens.

If all else goes bonkers, I can still attempt to run my old build, high degen anti-everything...

16 Illusion
9 inspiration
8 fast casting
rest to curses

Migrane {E}
Conjure Phantasm
Soothing Images
Power Drain
Power Leak / Ether Feast
Leech Signet or Drain Enchantment
Faintheartedness
Plague Touch / Res Sig

It loses it's power to totally stop casters, but it can kill via 10 degen if coordinated with teammates. Warriors can't harm it if at all. Rangers shoot at half speed. gah*

Is going anti-caster worth foregoing defensive skills? Stuffing their monk, but then dying to their warrior doesn't help much I take it?

Going all degen maybe with Mantra of Persistance was suggested too. Hmm... The possibilities... ^_^

Hella Good · May 18, 2006, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

Spirit of failure is a powerful cover hex the last time I checked.

Hmf? How is a 3 cast skill a cover hex?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I've learned, in an ugly way, that in either arena or 8v8 to 12v12, if I can stop one, I get eaten by the other...

I hear you there, I used to think that Mesmers can only handle either Fighters or Casters, but never both. This, however, is not true. Energy denial, universal interrupts, and shutdown are all strategies you can use versus just about anything. Energy denial being the best, universal interrupt (not Migraine) to follow, and shutdown (Diversion, Blackout, etc.) being perhaps the least effective but none the less usable on any target. I think most Mesmers will agree that, if you must focus on one side, pick Casters and take Distortion and the likes to counter Fighters. Still hard to give up on sweet Inepti WarHate builds.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 18, 2006, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

Hmf? How is a 3 cast skill a cover hex?

Is in the inspiration line
Provides the caster (you) with energy after casting an expensive spell (panic)
Lasts 30 seconds with 0 points in skill

Themis · May 18, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

I think Hella means (and i agree) that it takes 3secs to cast. So, probably the hex you're suppose to cover is not there anymore...

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 18, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Its 1.5 seconds =p
Don't forget my all time favorite skill WW which is .125 seconds to last until you get that cover.

shoot n loot · May 19, 2006, 12:55 PM // 12:55

heres what i run

Domination//Inspiration//FC mesmer interrupter
16 (12 +3 +1) l 11 l 7
------------------------------------------

Stolen Speed (i like the flourescent mushroom icon on my elite) lol, and its pretty useful, mayb not so much as migraine but illusion has no place in my build

Power Spike

Power Leak

Power Drain

Guilt

Shatter Enchantment

Energy Burn

Backfire

REs sig, this is my build for pvp btw (domination spec mesmer, heres a screen of my guy (before i got stolen speed though), used e drain for quik pop up on energy

just coppied it from different post i made lol

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/a...6&d=1145912012

Hella Good · May 19, 2006, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

Its 1.5 seconds =p

To make a 3 cast spell 1.5s you need precisely 15 in FC. Correct me if I'm wrong but- to the best of my knowledge- FC only goes that high if you are running a FC spiker/nuker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

Don't forget my all time favorite skill WW which is .125 seconds to last until you get that cover.

So you are going to waste 2 skills to cover up 1 skill, one of which will end if your target uses any skill, the other taking about 2s (with a reasonable amount of FC) to land. Add in the .75s cooling off between spells and I think you're talking crazy here.

My definition of cover hex is: 5-10 nrg 1 or less cast (FC NOT included) hex with low recharge, preferrably- but not necessarily- that offers some benefit when it expires or is removed.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 19, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Fine; you win this one =p (I have too many others to debate currently)